Building a garage in woodland

July 8, 2020 by Chris D in forum Planning Forum

#739 Chris D, 8 July 2020, 21:59

I moved to a listed (grade2) barn conversion last year, we share a 3 bay 'cart lodge' with two other properties and I'm desperate for a separate garage and workshop to restore a classic car. The way our property said I have opportunity to purchase some of the land next to our large back garden. It's currently part of a large wood owned by a large farming business.
My intension is to build an oak framed 3 bay garage in keeping with and behind the current Cart lodge, it would be 5m high, around 10m from a shared boundary and sit on roughly 0.3 of an acre, if I combine the area to the existing back garden which boarders it is around 0.7 acres. It would not be viable from the road or any of the properties.

My question is, would this require a change of use to the land? Planning permission I'm sure will be required, what's the views on the likelihood?

#740 Damian, 8 July 2020, 23:08

The erection of the building itself would definitely require PP as it falls outside the realms of what could be carried out under PD.

As you are looking to build on land not under your ownership, you would have to serve notice on the owner of the land.

As for the change of use, I’m more sure than not that there would be a CoU and of which would be included on any forthcoming Planning application.

As for the possibility of securing approval, look to seek the LPA’s informal Pre-application advice, which would help start you off.

#741 Chris D, 9 July 2020, 21:31

Thanks Damian, I have had an initial discussion will the local planner, he didn't seem against the idea. I've asked a couple of follow ups but understandably there's a point where I need to look at formalising this as a pre application. Can a single PP be submitted for CoU and the outbuilding, or do they need to be separate?

#742 Damian, 11 July 2020, 13:42

You could include it under one application as it’ll just be described as “Change of use from ‘x’ to ‘y’ including the erection of a garage”.

#914 Chris D, 4 February 2021, 15:12

So to update... Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

As suggested I have submitted a pre-application request. This however has not been approved.
The conservation office has no objections regarding the listed building status. The tree officer has no objection.

The conclusion states - the proposed expansion of the residential curtilage of the property would represent unjustified development in the open countryside, contrary to the objectives and criteria outlined in policy LP2 of the CLLP, and is therefore unacceptable in principle. Although it is acknowledged that the area of land is well screened from the main public vantage point of the A15 to the west, it is still considered that the proposed introduction of unnecessary built form into the open countryside would have an urbanising impact, and would detract from the character of the land/area. In any case, a lack of visual impact is not sufficient justification to provide exemption from the criteria set out in policies LP2 and LP55. The proposed development is therefore considered to be unacceptable in principle, and it is unlikely that any forthcoming application would be supported.

The application was for a 3 bay garage/workshop with a second story for use as storage and home office.
I have responded to the planner and asked if the same conclusion would apply to a single story development but have not yet had a response.

#916 Damian, 4 February 2021, 20:14

Are there any existing outbuildings on site that could be demolished in order to provide a trade off with the floor area you would like?

Do you have any PD rights that could be utilised, again as a trade off to get something more along the lines of what you do want?

You could also offer the withdrawal of certain PD rights subject to receiving approval for a two storey building.

#918 Chris D, 4 February 2021, 20:48

Thanks Damian for the response, within the report it states - It is considered that development beyond the large gardens walls, which so clearly delineate the extent of the residential curtilage of the properties and represent a clear physical separation from the site to the surrounding countryside, would detract from both the historical context of the site, and the character of the land beyond. It was for this reason that Permitted Development rights were removed, and the curtilage was established as it was (under apps. 13/0902/FUL and 15/0566/VARCON). It is considered that, regardless of the removal of PD rights, the area would still inevitably be 'domesticated' through the accumulation of domestic paraphernalia. It is also considered likely that the development would either harm or require the removal of trees to some extent.

#919 Chris D, 4 February 2021, 21:58

Some further info, the property is a converted barn that formed part a planning application Noted above. As part of that application the barns were converted into 3 properties and the original farm house sold off separately. There's no mention of my property on the application and the location listed on the application as the original farm house. The below statement is included in that report. My key desire is a 2-3 bay garage, the 2nd story would be nice but isn't a must. I guess factoring this in, it could be potentially be a permitted development as it sits on 0.33 acres (standalone that i'm looking to buy) and around an acre in total including my property.
Does the below apply given my address isn't on the application? Would the restrictions apply to the land if it was bought separately to my property? It's not owned by the farm house but the local land owner, there is no previous application listed for the land.

Condition in report;
Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995 (or any Order revoking and re-enacting that Order with or without modification):
(a) No external alterations shall be carried out to the dwelling(s)
(b) No extensions shall be carried out to the dwelling(s)
(c) No garages or outbuildings shall be erected within the curtilage of the dwelling(s)
(d) No vehicle standing space or hard standing shall be provided within the curtilage of the dwelling(s)
(e) No gates, walls, fences or other structures shall be erected along any boundary to the curtilage of the dwelling(s)

#921 Damian, 4 February 2021, 22:38

Tbh, this is getting too specific and is difficult to advise without knowing the full Planning history. It’s something you’re going to have to wait for and discuss with the LPA.

#922 Chris D, 5 February 2021, 06:27

Thanks Damian, understood, i appreciate your efforts.

would you advise - if the land was purchased separately to the existing residence, and no previous planning consent applies. does 'permitted development' exist on agricultural land when it isn't associated with a residence?

#923 Damian, 5 February 2021, 07:56

There are PD rules relating to non-domestic situations. For example...

Reply to topic

All HTML, except <i>, <b>, <u> will require your topic to be moderated before it is publicly displayed.

Your Name:
Your Email Address:

Your Email Address will not be made public.
Topic Content:

Return to topic list | Return to forum list

The Partner Directory

Click on the logos below to find more about the services offered

Advertise here